[11:11] <+lilo> 1029942493  [OPN] [msg(dmwaters)] the Epic author may be annoyed at channel forwarding
[11:11] <+lilo> oops
[11:11] ωνω [alpha1] [~cait_sith@rdis.eb23-cartaxo.rcts.pt] has joined #freenode
[11:14] * lilo considers that no IRC server tree in common use is RFC-1459 compliant
[11:14] < dark> Yeah but IIRC the main complaint was that OPN servers don't identify their flavour when a client connects.
[11:14] * lilo notes that when you lose one thing to politic about, you have to come up with something else
[11:14] ωνω jor [foobar@adsl219194.adsl.utwente.nl] has joined #freenode
[11:14] <+lilo> dark: they identify themselves as what they are
[11:15] <+lilo> dark: capabilities identification is non-RFC-1459
[11:15] < dark> Well... so is channel forwarding, apparently :-)
[11:15] <+lilo> dark: so are all IRC servers in commopn use
[11:16] <+lilo> dark: (1) RFC-1459 is an experimental RFC
[11:16] ωνω Signoff Floach: #freenode (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:16] <+lilo> dark: (2) it is supposedly superseded by the RFC2810-3 set, but they in fact describe a particular implementation (I think IRCnet but can't remember for certain)
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[11:16] * lilo shrugs
[11:16] <+lilo> politics is politics ultimately
[11:17] < dark> lilo: Why did you bring it up, then, if it's not relevant?
[11:17] ωνω Signoff miro: #freenode ("Client Exiting")
[11:17] < dark> lilo: The question is whether things actually work.
[11:17] <+lilo> dark: I noticed that, now that the fundraising messages are not going out, the same folks who were commenting on them have switched to an unrelated issue
[11:17] * lilo shrugs
[11:18] < aurikan> you're imagining things
[11:18] < aurikan> most of them were always annoyed with dancer breaking their clients
[11:19] < aurikan> just because the fundraising issue doesn't mean they "found something new"
[11:19] <+lilo> haha
[11:19] <+lilo> that's really funny
[11:19] * lilo loves FUD
[11:19] <+lilo> "you're imagining things" :)
[11:20] < aurikan> well, you are
[11:20] <+lilo> aurikan: hardly that
[11:20] < dark> *sigh* "FUD" is so overused these days.  Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt?
[11:20] < aurikan> do you want me to go into why?
[11:20] <+lilo> aurikan: not really, I'm sure you can post something somewhere ;)
[11:20] < aurikan> let me dig into this a bit
[11:20] <+lilo> aurikan: thanks, not really interested
[11:20] < aurikan> now your FUD is FUD too =)
[11:21] < aurikan> if you're going to proffer an opinion, be prepared to defend it I say
[11:21] <+lilo> aurikan: if you want to pick a forum for it, go ahead
[11:21] <+lilo> aurikan: you've overused this one
[11:21] < aurikan> you picked this channel as the forum
[11:21] <+lilo> nope
[11:21] < aurikan> *you* brought it up here
[11:21] < aurikan> did you not?
[11:22] <+lilo> yup, and clearly it was the wrong place
[11:22] <+lilo> so let's move on
[11:22] < aurikan> ok
[11:22] < aurikan> good enough for me
[11:22] <+lilo> that's good to hear
[11:24] * lilo realizes that aurikan has just used a bit of propaganda technique to set the topic on the network administrative channel
[11:24] <+lilo> aurikan: do you currently have any administrative questions?
[11:25] < aurikan> i thought we were going to let this slide?
[11:25] <+lilo> aurikan: do you currently have any administrative questions?
[11:25] < aurikan> no, i am idling here
[11:25] ωνω mode/#freenode [+q *!*@CPE0080c8fa5f1a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by lilo
[11:25] <+lilo> k
[11:28] <+lilo> I'm going to feel free to make occasional comments here, since there are very few other forums in which I can do so without having to respond to a lot of fud
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[11:28] <+lilo> I don't particularly feel apologetic about that
[11:28] ωνω justicar [arioch@ool-18bc8089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #freenode
[11:28] < justicar> no, you'll feel free to comment here because this is the only place where you can silence any sort of opposition or suggestion that your ideas are a load of crock
[11:28] < justicar> thanks
[11:28] ωνω Signoff justicar: #freenode (Client Quit)
[11:28] <+lilo> that's pretty ridiculous'
[11:29] < Hatter> :/
[11:29] < dark> So, is there a channel where people can just talk about the network?
[11:30] <+lilo> any number of them
[11:30] < dark> I mean, where it's on-topic :)
[11:30] <+lilo> consult channel owners
[11:31] <+lilo> I'm sure there are plenty
[11:31] <+lilo> if someone wants to complain about the network, the web is available, in spades
[11:31] <+lilo> and there are other channels
[11:31] <+lilo> the only difference with this channel is that they can use it as a quasi-official forum
[11:32] < Hatter> ...and they can speak to you directly
[11:32] <+MysticOne_> Hatter: could always /msg him :)
[11:32] <+lilo> they can speak to me directly by email
[11:32] <+lilo> or /msg
[11:32] < Hatter> Not really.
[11:32] <+lilo> they can be *seen* speaking to me directly on channel
[11:33] <+lilo> so you tell me which of the two comments like aurikan's are really about? ;)
[11:33] <+lilo> I don't mind people who feel they should get the use of the network for free, that's pretty usual for IRC
[11:33] < dark> He was responding to an assertion you made.
[11:33] <+lilo> I don't even mind people who don't like the network, everybody has their own preferences
[11:36] <+lilo> if you like the network, use it
[11:36] <+lilo> if you don't, well, don't use it
[11:36] < Barbicane> seem so simple....
[11:36] <+MysticOne_> Barbicane: it is :)
[11:36] <+lilo> dark: perhaps I shouldn't have brought up the topic
[11:36] <+lilo> dark: but you know, the politics gets old
[11:36] < Barbicane> MysticOne_: yah, I was being sarcastic
[11:37] <+MysticOne_> Barbicane: hehehe
[11:37] <+lilo> dark: Josip has put in a lot of messages implying that it's somehow dirty to be want to paid to do work for the community
[11:36] <+lilo> "After reading the short-lived DebianPlanet coverage of this issue, and the
[11:36] <+lilo> Slashdot coverage of the DebianPlanet coverage, I sent a message to Josip
[11:36] <+lilo> about this issue.  He asked me to repeat my comments here since I feel
[11:36] <+lilo> strongly about them, so I will.
[11:37] <+lilo> "
[11:37] <+lilo> all I'm saying is that I think there's a lot of politics going on there
[11:38] <+lilo> I don't know of an irc server tree used by a major network that is RFC-1459 compliant
[11:39] < dark> It doesn't have to be political, it's a technical issue and can be solved on that level.
[11:39] <+lilo> well, I'm happy to work on solving problems
[11:39] <+lilo> we seem to have solved the problem of putting out annoying notices
[11:39] < locust> you have to admit, though, there are differing degrees of compliance
[11:40] <+lilo> locust: true, but I'm not sure how significant the issue is
[11:40] < locust> dark: technical issues are more political than most :P coders have big egos
[11:40] < dark> locust: I think the rule is that the less important the technical choice, the hotter the feelings :)
[11:40] <+MysticOne_> it may be just me... but aren't RFCs, like, not standards?
[11:40] <+MysticOne_> Request for comment
[11:40] < dark> locust: Witness the Brace Style Wars.
[11:41] < xsdg> dark: well... where do you put your braces? :o)
[11:41] ωνω Signoff beasty: #freenode (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[11:42] < locust> it might be more trouble than it's worth, but it might be an idea to set up a policy where authors of major clients (say irc-II, epic, bitchx, irssi, mIRC, xchat) are consulted
[11:42] < xsdg> locust: s#bx## :o)
[11:42] * xsdg ducks...
[11:42] < locust> xsdg: eh?