[00:50] <@mewse> so cyb.. why don't you rape or murder [00:50] <@recidivus> you think so? i think this season is a hell of a lot better [00:50] <@recidivus> there were some boring parts last season but not this time [00:50] <@Cyb> because it's wrong and stuff [00:50] <@mewse> why is it wrong [00:50] <@Cyb> I wouldn't want to be murdered [00:50] <@Cyb> or have my sister raped [00:50] <@Linguica> uhh [00:50] <@Linguica> first season was way better [00:50] <@mewse> then don't murder or rape your sister [00:50] <@Linguica> first 13 eps for sure [00:50] <@Cyb> I don't plan on it [00:51] <@Linguica> after 1:00 pm it slowed down a little for a while [00:51] <@mewse> that doesn't answer my question [00:51] <@Linguica> before picking up again at the end [00:51] <@Linguica> this season though its just all over the map [00:51] <@recidivus> it just seems there's so much more at risk this time [00:51] <@Cyb> but I figure if I don't want it done to me other people prolly don't want it done to them [00:51] <@mewse> does it matter what other people want? [00:51] <@arioch> does it matter what you want? [00:51] <@arioch> do you want me to murder you? [00:51] <@arioch> what if at the last doomcon I killed you and aur in your sleep [00:51] <@Cyb> rofl [00:51] <@mewse> let me talk to cyb [00:51] <@Cyb> then doom would be in the news again [00:52] <@Isle> s/killed/raped [00:52] <@arioch> rofl [00:52] <@Cyb> DOOM MADE ME KILL THOSE TWO CANADIANS!! [00:52] <@mewse> cyb, does it matter what other people want [00:52] <@mewse> why don't you do what you want [00:52] <@recidivus> what's a working openprojects server [00:52] <@mewse> irc.freenode.net [00:52] <@Linguica> i dont care what the end goal is really [00:52] <@Linguica> killing the prez or nuking LA [00:52] <@Cyb> yes [00:52] <@Isle> calvino.freenode.net [00:52] <@Cyb> why would I want to disrupt other peoples lives like that [00:52] <@recidivus> as long as they kill that stupid bitch kim i'll be happy [00:53] <@Linguica> first season was better done, more action, less giant leaps of logic [00:53] <@mewse> for personal gain [00:53] <@Linguica> yeah i am getting real sick of kim [00:53] <@Cyb> I stand to gain nothing from murder and rape [00:53] <@Linguica> and when is mason going to go vigilante or something [00:53] <@Linguica> for a dead man he sure is not doing anything [00:53] <@recidivus> heh [00:53] <@mewse> but what if you did, what would stop you [00:53] <@Cyb> what I said [00:53] <@recidivus> what could mason do [00:53] <@Cyb> I wouldn't want it done to me [00:54] <@Cyb> or to people I cared about [00:54] <@Linguica> i dunno [00:54] <@mewse> but its not being done to you, its you doing it to others [00:54] <@Linguica> mason should become a badass with nothing to lose [00:54] <@mewse> you killing someone and getting away with it does not mean it will happen to you [00:54] <@Cyb> yes [00:54] <@Linguica> he's a cool character and i hate to see him sit around waiting to die [00:54] <@Cyb> I'm not saying it will happen to me [00:54] <@recidivus> he's cool but he's too fatigued to walk up a flight of stairs [00:54] <@Linguica> well then the writers have fucked it up [00:54] <@Cyb> I'm saying I would not want it to, I would not want to be in the shoes of the persom being killed or raped etc [00:55] <@Linguica> and the whole president thing is a mess [00:55] <@mewse> so you're saying you don't want to hurt peoples feelings [00:55] <@Linguica> i just dont a give a shit about any of it [00:55] <@recidivus> i trust sherry [00:55] <@Linguica> yeah i cant believe sherry would be the bad guy again [00:55] <@Linguica> i think the new advisor dude is the real traitor [00:55] <@Linguica> it seems too obvious [00:55] <@recidivus> and trusting sherry seems so blatantly moronic that you know it's going to be right [00:55] <@Cyb> feelings? [00:55] <@Linguica> the cheney looking guy [00:55] <@Linguica> he's gotta be the real mole [00:55] <@recidivus> i thought he was the advisor in the first season too, wasn't he? [00:56] <@mewse> well.. dead people dont have feelings.. so you're only making the family sad [00:56] <@Isle> is it spelled bauer or bower? [00:56] <@recidivus> bauer [00:56] <@Cyb> yes [00:56] <@Isle> kick ass [00:56] <@Cyb> I wouldn't want to do that [00:56] <@mewse> so you're saying you don't hurt people because you don't want to hurt them [00:56] <@rayle> ling [00:56] <@Linguica> rayle [00:56] <@Cyb> yes I suppose [00:57] <@rayle> pm plz [00:57] <@mewse> well thats sorta useless.. what if you'd be happier by hurting the person [00:57] <@Cyb> why would I be happier [00:58] <@mewse> lets say things have changed, and you decide the world would be a better place if a person was dead [00:58] <@Cyb> what right do I have to take someones life [00:58] <@Linguica> wtf are you people talking about [00:58] <@mewse> your right is your ability to do it [00:58] <@arioch> Linguica: mewse trolling cyb about his post in the quran thread [00:58] <@Cyb> I don't have the right to kill someone [00:58] <@mewse> why not? [00:58] <@Cyb> I have the ability yes [00:59] <@Cyb> but not the right [00:59] <@Cyb> because it's not my life [00:59] <@arioch> [00:58] -:- Quasar` was kicked off #zdoom by _Hyena_ (_Hyena_) [00:59] <@arioch> rofl [00:59] <@recidivus> what if the person kills someone you love and they get off on a technicality [00:59] <@mewse> what does the fact that it's not your life have to do with anything [00:59] <@Cyb> it's not my decidion to make [01:00] <@Cyb> decision [01:00] <@mewse> why not [01:00] <@Cyb> if the person should die or live [01:00] <@Cyb> why would it be [01:00] <@Linguica> heh [01:00] <@mewse> what is stopping you from deciding that the person should die [01:00] <@mewse> because you CAN [01:00] <@Linguica> who cares if you have the "right" to kill someone [01:00] <@Linguica> survival of the fittest mang [01:00] <@arioch> so wait [01:00] <@Cyb> I just told you [01:01] <@arioch> because you're too wimpy to kill someone who might have wronged you, you make up a reason why you don't have to? [01:01] <@arioch> (not to cyb, btw) [01:01] <@Cyb> hehe [01:01] <@mewse> because you don't have "the right"? why don't you have the right [01:01] <@mewse> because it's not your life? [01:01] <@arioch> mewse: why don't you go back to the bar and kill the guy who decked you? [01:02] <@mewse> your life is deciding whether to kill the person or not [01:02] <@Linguica> heh [01:02] <@Cyb> my life isn't that tho [01:02] <@arioch> no, now you're defining his life for him [01:02] <@Linguica> well obviously theres risk vs reward [01:02] <@mewse> the government executes people, why can't you decide to remove someone for your personal benefit [01:03] <@Cyb> I'm not the government [01:03] <@Linguica> its probably not a good idea to kill someone unless you have a very good reason to do so [01:03] <@mewse> ling: well yeah [01:03] <@arioch> and the government doesn't execute people simply for its own benefit [01:03] <@Cyb> yeah [01:04] <@Cyb> the goverment does it for the benefit of the people under said government [01:04] <@mewse> so it executes people on behalf of the people? [01:04] <@mewse> what right does a group of people have to take a life when you don't [01:04] <@Linguica> the government is the people [01:04] <@mewse> yes, so what right does "the people" have that you don't individually [01:04] <@mewse> once 5 people decide that someone should die, it's ok? [01:05] <@mewse> thats not even the argument i'm making [01:05] <@Cyb> I'm not for the death penalty anyway so your argument is irrelevant [01:05] <@mewse> i'm asking what is stopping you [01:05] <@mewse> because you dont want to [01:05] <@mewse> what if you did [01:05] <@arioch> I am, but I'm not arguing the same way as cyb so your argument is irrelevant [01:05] <@arioch> :P [01:06] <@mewse> why don't you become a parasite if it means that you can thrive [01:06] <@Cyb> I mean a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm just not really a violent person [01:07] <@Cyb> I doubt I could kill someone even if I really truly wanted to and I knew I would get away with it 100% [01:08] <@mewse> you'd never off someone because you aren't capable? [01:08] <@Linguica> well [01:08] <@Cyb> I don't think I could live knowing the fact that I had done it [01:08] <@Linguica> if you really truly wanted to kill a person [01:08] <@Cyb> live with [01:08] <@Linguica> then who knows [01:08] <@Cyb> I mean I can't say [01:08] <@mewse> so we clear away your obstacles [01:08] <@mewse> we say you want to do it [01:09] <@mewse> we say you've got 100% chance of not getting caught [01:09] <@Cyb> like if some guy murdered my entire family in cold blood I have no clue how I'd react [01:09] <@arioch> mewse: defining the conditions is as good as defining the response [01:09] <@mewse> we say you grow the balls [01:09] <@arioch> mewse: it's a worthless scenario [01:09] <@mewse> is there anything else stopping you? [01:09] <@Cyb> mewse: that changes who I am [01:09] <@Cyb> so no [01:09] <@Cyb> probably not [01:09] ωνω Signoff Isle: #doom (Client Exit: zzzzzzzzzzz) [01:10] <@mewse> it doesnt change your morals [01:10] <@arioch> yes it does [01:10] <@mewse> it changes your emotions and the situation [01:10] <@arioch> [01:08] <@mewse> we say you want to do it [01:10] <@Cyb> heh well why do I want this person dead [01:10] <@mewse> it does NOT change your morals [01:10] <@arioch> it just die [01:10] <@arioch> er [01:10] <@arioch> did [01:10] <@Cyb> do I just want to kill them for sport or what [01:10] <@arioch> he's morally opposed to killing [01:10] <@mewse> so your morals are based on what you want and don't want? [01:10] <@arioch> no, his wants are based on his morals [01:10] <@mewse> thats pretty shaky territory arioch [01:11] <@arioch> you've got it reversed [01:11] <@mewse> so he'll never want to kill because he's morally opposed [01:11] <@arioch> so are you redefining his morals [01:11] <@mewse> where do his morals come from [01:11] <@Cyb> heh [01:11] <@Cyb> mainly from my parents [01:11] <@arioch> let's play the remake-cyb game [01:12] <@arioch> I want cyb to grow 2 breasts [01:12] <@Cyb> oh me too! [01:12] * Cyb feels himself [01:12] <@arioch> 4 breasted cyb? [01:12] <@Cyb> 4! [01:12] <@mewse> ok the situation i described, fails because cyb's morals don't allow him to, because of his parents [01:12] <@mewse> so you are a robot [01:12] <@arioch> yes [01:12] <@mewse> ok [01:12] <@Cyb> how so? [01:12] <@arioch> are any of us truly free to make our own decisions? [01:12] <@arioch> the answer is no [01:13] <@mewse> ENTER MORALS NOW ---- beeep bepepbbeeep [01:13] <@mewse> thank you, processing [01:13] <@arioch> it ate his morals [01:13] <@arioch> they were really good morals [01:13] <@Cyb> rofl [01:13] <@Cyb> I got some new ones [01:13] <@Cyb> but they aren't as good as the old ones [01:13] <@mewse> i'm free to make my own decisions [01:13] * Cyb kills mewse [01:13] <@arioch> mewse: yet you don't go around killing people? [01:13] <@Cyb> heh [01:13] <@arioch> surely you'd benefit from at least 2 or 3 murders [01:13] <@Cyb> are you striving for a point here mewse? [01:14] <@arioch> and rapes [01:14] <@Cyb> I'm not quite sure what you're doing [01:14] <@arioch> god knows we all want "some" [01:14] <@arioch> you're in a position to get! [01:14] <@mewse> yes i would [01:14] <@mewse> i would personally benefit [01:14] <@arioch> so you choose not to murder? [01:14] <@mewse> yes [01:14] <@arioch> despite the fact that you might possibly want to? [01:14] <@mewse> yes [01:14] <@Linguica> i do not choose not to murder because who knows [01:15] <@arioch> ok lets point the scenario back to you [01:15] <@Cyb> hehe [01:15] <@arioch> you want to do it [01:15] <@arioch> you have 100% chance to not get caught [01:15] <@arioch> what's stopping you [01:16] <@mewse> hmm [01:16] <@arioch> and knowing that you wanted to do it [01:16] <@mewse> yeah [01:16] <@arioch> why did you not do it [01:16] <@arioch> so are you truly free to make your own decisions, do whatever you want? [01:16] <@mewse> yes hold on [01:17] <@arioch> there's a really easy escape clause [01:17] <@arioch> heh [01:17] <@Cyb> heh [01:17] <@mewse> god? i'd say that but you guys dont understand it so i have to phrase it differently [01:17] <@arioch> but it wouldn't be an escape clause anybody would be comfortable with making [01:18] <@Cyb> I understand god [01:18] <@mewse> no you don't [01:19] <@arioch> is this the "nobody understands god" or the "you don't believe therefore you don't understand" [01:19] <@Cyb> yes I do I believed he/she/it existed until 3 years ago [01:19] <@mewse> well it was obviously a blind faith because you realized you had no reason to believe [01:19] <@Cyb> all faith is blind [01:20] <@mewse> wrong [01:20] <@Cyb> what single shred of evidence is there that there is some higher being in some unseen plain of existance [01:20] <@arioch> what shred of evidence do you have that what god wants is what's written in The Book [01:20] <@mewse> everything anyone learns, EVER, proves that we do not know everything [01:20] <@arioch> what if he wants you to kill that guy [01:21] <@Cyb> we think too much [01:21] <@arioch> in fact god kills quite a few people in The Book [01:21] <@arioch> what if you are to be his instrument in this man's death [01:21] <@arioch> what if I tell you that 72 virgins are promised to you after your death, so long as you kill this man [01:22] <@Cyb> we feel the need to explain our existance [01:22] <@mewse> our existance, i dont mean the existance of human beans constructed of carbon and amino acids i mean why *anything* exists [01:22] <@Cyb> the explain the unexplainable [01:22] <@Cyb> to explain rather [01:22] <@Cyb> you're thinking too much again [01:22] <@mewse> when we find out what existance is, we will know god [01:22] <@Cyb> it's all by chance [01:22] <@Cyb> chance [01:23] <@Cyb> we're not here for any reason [01:23] <@mewse> if we're not here for any reason then why are we here [01:23] <@arioch> why do we need to know why we're here [01:23] <@Cyb> because the conditions were perfect for life [01:23] <@Cyb> which is an amazing thing [01:23] <@arioch> or, to put it another way [01:23] <@mewse> uhh [01:23] <@mewse> why do the conditions exist [01:23] <@arioch> why do we need an external reason to explain why we're here [01:23] <@Cyb> chance [01:23] <@mewse> why does chance exist [01:24] <@Cyb> well because we created chance [01:24] <@mewse> we created chance and chance created us?! [01:24] <@Cyb> no we created the concept of chance [01:24] <@arioch> we put a name to chance, just as we put a name to god [01:24] <@Cyb> like I said we think too much [01:24] <@arioch> we named the idea that we were created [01:24] <@mewse> well i'm not asking why the concept of chance exists [01:24] <@mewse> i'm asking why chance exists [01:25] <@Cyb> I don't know [01:25] <@mewse> see? [01:25] <@Cyb> time is infinte [01:25] <@mewse> why does time exist [01:25] <@Cyb> no reason [01:25] <@Cyb> you're just thinking too much again [01:25] <@mewse> haha [01:25] <@arioch> why does anything exist [01:26] <@Linguica> time doesnt exist [01:26] <@Linguica> its just a byproduct of entropy and the laws of the universe [01:26] <@Cyb> mewse: the concept of god is there to explain those very questions [01:26] <@arioch> Linguica: why do the laws of the universe exist [01:26] <@mewse> where did the laws of the universe come from [01:26] <@Linguica> because the universe couldnt exist otherwise [01:26] <@arioch> why is there a universe [01:27] <@Linguica> antrhopic principle [01:27] <@Linguica> anthropic [01:27] <@mewse> uh [01:27] <@Linguica> if things werent the way they are we could never be discussing it [01:27] <@mewse> the universe exists because of the the laws of the universe which exist because of the universe [01:28] <@Cyb> I don't believe the universe ever ceased to exist [01:28] <@Linguica> if you're asking what caused the universe to exist then that is an impossible question [01:28] <@mewse> why [01:28] <@arioch> you're assuming that null and void is the normal status [01:28] <@Linguica> because the prime mover would be outside our universe [01:28] <@Linguica> and therefore impossible to know [01:28] <@mewse> so god is impossible to know [01:29] <@arioch> so how do you know he doesn't want you to go around killing people [01:29] <@Cyb> rofl [01:29] <@Linguica> there no absolutely no evidence for any sort of human centric monotheistic human affairs meddling god [01:29] <@mewse> i'm not arguing christianity [01:29] <@arioch> so how do you know he doesn't want you to go around killing people [01:29] <@arioch> or even if it's a he [01:29] <@Linguica> because god doesnt exist [01:30] <@arioch> we created the chains that bind us, then we decided that we were shackled by someone greater [01:30] <@mewse> ling: you say it's impossible to know how the universe was created, but you say it was created from nothing? nothing can't create anything [01:31] <@Cyb> I bet the universe is a box on some giant's shelf [01:31] <@Cyb> that would be freaky [01:31] <@Cyb> in a box I should say [01:32] <@arioch> "if there were no god, then it would be necessary to invent him" (mis)quote [01:32] <@Cyb> the universe wasn't created [01:32] <@Cyb> it was always here [01:32] <@Cyb> and will always continue to be here [01:32] <@mewse> uhh [01:33] <@mewse> that doesnt explain why it's here [01:33] <@arioch> mewse you haven't answered my question [01:33] <@Cyb> that's what I think anyway [01:33] <@mewse> which one [01:33] <@arioch> how do you know god doesn't want you to kill people [01:33] <@mewse> i don't know what god wants [01:33] <@Cyb> the universe just consists of everything that exists [01:34] <@arioch> [01:16] <@arioch> so are you truly free to make your own decisions, do whatever you want? [01:34] <@arioch> [01:16] <@mewse> yes hold on [01:34] <@arioch> [01:17] <@arioch> there's a really easy escape clause [01:34] <@arioch> [01:17] <@arioch> heh [01:34] <@arioch> [01:17] <@Cyb> heh [01:34] <@arioch> [01:17] <@mewse> god? i'd say that but you guys dont understand it so i have to phrase it differently [01:34] <@Cyb> and it's infinite [01:34] <@Cyb> and the only reason it exists, is because we precieve it to exist and the only reason we exist is because we're part of the universe [01:34] <@arioch> so, not knowing what god wants, why do you have the morals that you have [01:35] <@arioch> was it because of god? you don't know god, you don't know what god wants [01:35] <@Cyb> it's an infinite loop and it's just an insane fucking concept [01:35] <@mewse> i am free to do whatever i want, included in my decisions are appeals to god [01:35] <@arioch> you're appealing to what is unknown [01:35] <@mewse> yes [01:35] <@Cyb> mewse: the universe is infinite correct? [01:35] <@mewse> cyb: ok [01:35] <@Cyb> how do you know god even cares about you [01:35] <@arioch> I've now just told you that god wants you to kill that man, he's prepared to reward you 72 virgins [01:35] <@Cyb> or even knows you exist [01:36] <@mewse> he prolly doesnt [01:36] <@Cyb> it'sa a huge fucking universe [01:36] <@Cyb> and to think that we're all that's here is awfully arrogant [01:36] <@Cyb> all life I mean [01:36] <@Linguica> i never said the universe was created from nothing [01:36] <@mewse> well you said god doesnt exist, are you talking about the christian God [01:37] <@arioch> I'm talking about whatever god you appeal to [01:37] <@Linguica> i dont think there is any sort of being that approximates the human notions of god [01:37] <@arioch> christian, mayan, whatever [01:37] <@mewse> arioch: i meant for ling [01:37] <@Cyb> I'm saying no higher being created the universe [01:37] <@Cyb> oh [01:37] <@mewse> ling: human notions? you mean.. raining lightning and stuff? [01:38] <@Linguica> the human notions of an omnipotent omniscient being [01:38] <@Linguica> that created the universe [01:38] <@mewse> then why is the universe here [01:38] <@arioch> why does it need a reason for being here [01:39] <@Cyb> heh [01:39] <@Linguica> the universe is here because somehow it came into being [01:39] <@Cyb> god my backbuffer only goes back an hour [01:39] <@Cyb> usually it goes back a day [01:39] <@Linguica> the existence of the universe is in no way proof of god [01:39] <@mewse> arioch: so it's not here? [01:39] <@arioch> you tell me [01:39] <@arioch> where are we [01:40] <@arioch> fuck I broke my chair again [01:40] <@Linguica> god broke your chair for sacrilege [01:40] <@arioch> that rotten bastard [01:40] <@mewse> ling: the existance of the universe is proof of the existance of the universe, that's all [01:40] <@arioch> I swear I'm getting back at him [01:40] <@Cyb> kill his mother [01:40] <@Cyb> mewse: say god created the universe [01:41] <@Cyb> where did god come from? [01:41] <@arioch> recursive loop [01:41] <@arioch> god created himself [01:41] <@mewse> probably somewhere else [01:41] <@Cyb> and where did that somewhere else come from [01:41] <@Linguica> thats the ultimate worthless unanswerable question [01:41] <@mewse> well, we could say its infinite, or we could ask where all these places are coming from [01:41] <@Cyb> man does dr pepper have caffiene [01:41] <@Linguica> yes [01:41] <@Cyb> DAMN [01:42] <@Cyb> oh well so much for sleeping [01:42] <@arioch> I wrote a short story in middle school where god was this scientist doing an experiment and then he realizes that what he's done was fulfilling his part of an infinite loop [01:42] <@arioch> it was fun to visualize [01:42] <@Cyb> heh [01:43] <@arioch> I don't think I have the text anymore tho [01:43] <@mewse> godel escher bach is about the origin of life [01:44] <@Cyb> really this all goes back to our need to explain everything [01:44] <@mewse> and part of the definitions of life is that a living thing can not explain how it exists [01:44] <@mewse> just like we can't explain why any of this exists [01:44] <@Cyb> it's not in our nature to just accept things we have to know why they are [01:45] <@Cyb> even if there is a god, there's still no explination for him [01:45] <@mewse> yep [01:45] <@Cyb> and if there isn't a god there's no explination for the universe [01:45] <@Cyb> so in the end there's no explination for anything anyway [01:45] <@arioch> it's funny how people who can't stand the idea that nobody created the universe can stand the idea that nobody created God [01:45] <@Cyb> yeah [01:45] <@mewse> well [01:46] <@mewse> they define god as the end-all-be-all [01:46] <@arioch> so let's cut out that rung [01:46] <@arioch> and define the universe as the end-all-be-all [01:46] <@arioch> seems to be a much simpler and elegant way [01:47] <@Linguica> heh [01:47] <@Linguica> yeah [01:47] <@mewse> well then.. god is the universe [01:47] <@Linguica> "who created god" "god always existed" [01:47] <@Linguica> "so why did god wait an infinite time before creating man" [01:47] <@arioch> mewse: now that I can possibly agree with [01:47] <@Cyb> in christianity god's existance is shrugged off [01:47] <@mewse> arioch: and it doesnt really change any arguments [01:47] <@Linguica> xianity places emphasis on jesus [01:48] <@mewse> we still dont understand god [01:48] <@Linguica> because its easier to worship a man than an unknowable being you can never see or understand [01:48] <@Cyb> the concept of something always existing is a really fucked up concept tho [01:48] <@Cyb> like it never not existed [01:48] <@Cyb> BRAIN OVERLOAD [01:48] <@arioch> yeah [01:49] <@Linguica> ow my brain just divided by zero [01:49] <@Cyb> it goes against everything we know [01:49] <@arioch> Linguica: segfault [01:49] <@Cyb> hehe [01:49] <@arioch> coredump [01:49] <@Cyb> my brain core dumped [01:49] <@Cyb> damn j00 [01:50] <@arioch> somebody should log this thing I bet it's the most and least meaningful thing we've ever said in here [01:50] <@Cyb> yes [01:51] * arioch goes to bed [01:51] <@recidivus> i think the arioch skin moisturizer was